These are notes from the Public Meeting July 27, 2010, transcribed by RPB from a DVD recording made by Tom Munsey and available to all.

27 July 2010

Mullis Center

Friday Harbor, WA

National Park Service Public Comment Meeting,

re: Environmental Assessment recommendations about the rabbits at American Camp

Peter Dederich, superintendent, San Juan Historical Parks

Jerald Weaver, chief of integrated resources management, San Juan Historical Parks

Video recording by Tom Munsey, Friday Harbor

PD: the park was commissioned in 1966 to commemorate the Pig War, its resolution and a lasting peace between English and American camps.  There are 19 archeological sites, 23 historical structures and 3 documented (?) landscapes.

The general purpose statement of the NPS General Management Plan for American Camp was to preserve and interpret these sites, to commemorate historical events and to preserve natural park resources in addition to cultural and historical resources.

We look at purpose and need.   European rabbits are not native, they are highly invasive as they expand into new territory and crowd out native species and wildlife.  The rabbits do a lot of burrowing, causing damage to cultural resources…

Q: "What species do they exclude?"

PD: They exclude virtually everything.  Nothing was there where the warrens were.  There was almost no other wildlife or plants.

Q: "Not even eagles and hawks?"

[no answer]

PD:  [we must[ eliminate European rabbits and prevent their future recolonization in order to mitigate the deterioration of resources that the rabbits are causing.

Introduces Jerald Weaver, Chief of Integrative Resources Management

JW:  We are here to seeking public involvement - a framework to structure our next environmental assessment, to solicit your input.  "You are key to this process."

The steps we have taken so far are:

in March and April of 2009, we asked for feedback on the GMP.  We wanted to hear your issues and analysis. 

We had a meeting and a public comment period.

We then wrote the Environmental Assessment,  incorporating public comment and input into the final document

We are here today to get input on the review of that E.A. 

Q: "What did you use to eradicate the rabbits a year ago?"

JW: That's a question for later. Let's focus on this now.

There are four opportunities for public comment.

1. In 2009, there was a public comment period about the GMP.

2. There was an open house, which was announced in the papers.

3. There was a public comment period about the EA that ended August 12.

4. This meeting, which is for comment on the EA.

Q:  "This was the first one we heard about."

JW presented Alternatives A and B. 

JW: These are the only two options we have considered.

Alternative A: No action.

Alternative B:  Full removal of European rabbits, future recolonization prevented. We rejected many options: explosives, toxic bait, predator introduction, contraception.

Q: "Foxes?"

JW: "We didn't do that."

Q: "Was fencing considered to keep rabbits out of sensitive areas?"

JW: We'll talk about that later.

The issues we brought up are feasibility / impact on wildlife / invasive plants / bald eagles

[Q: "Golden eagles?"

JW: "Golden eagles were not addressed."]

/ cultural sites / prior rabbit management / herbicide use / visitor experience.

We have set up five stations to address these issues.  You can go from one to another and discuss them individually.

Q: "There is no public comment now?"

JW: "No.  You have to write your comments down at one of the stations."

Q: "What was the prior rabbit management?"

JW:  "There hasn't been any prior population management of European rabbits."

Q: "If self management (Alternative A) means there are no more rabbits left, what is the point" of killing them?

JW: I'm hoping  will come to see and will choose Alternative A.  (not clear)

Q: "If you separate us at the stations, that's really isolating - we can't hear each other's comments."

JW:  I realize that.  That's how we are set up today.  I would encourage you to go to the stations.

(Audience talking all together)

JW: You're being disrespectful.

Q:  "Is there anyone here who wants to shoot the rabbits?"

JW:  "Ma'am, if you disrupt the meeting, we are not going to continue."

Q: "This isn't a meeting.  It's an announcement of your power and a lecture.  That badge o your shirt doesn't make you a cop."

JW:  Sir, I'm going to ask you to leave.

Q:  "You're going to ask me to leave your announcement?"

(Audience talking excitedly)

Q: "LET HIM FINISH!"

Q: "He is finished.  He wants to shoot the rabbits!"

Linda Downes stood up and introduced herself as an island peacemaker.  She said she agreed that the definition of a public meeting would be to allow the pubic to make comments.  "It's too bad we can't do that.  What if we all go to the comments stations together?  Then maybe we can ask questions at the end?"

Q: "Maybe the comments stations could come to us."

LD: Good idea.

JW:  Once again, there are three ways to submit comments:  in writing or online.

Q: But we don't get any response.

Q: Send it certified mail!

Mary Elford: You said you got 30 comments last time.  What were they?"

Q: We would like to see our comments.

Q: We just had an excellent suggestion from a peacemaker that was improved by our neighbor.  Put your damn slides away.

(Audience talking)

JW:  We are asking for your feedback.  We will come out with a new E.A. with your comments, then finalize it.

Q: So our only chance for comments is until August 12?

JW: Yes.

Keith Van Cleve: When the original document (the GMP) came out, I hand carried my comments to your predecessor.  Perhaps you should release some statement about our comments. We just want to know, what is our effect?

JW:  We don't typically respond.

KVC: Are our comments still valuable?  Is Alternative A still being considered?

JW: Yes.

Q: What's the point in our commenting if you don't respond?

JW:  We use the comments to design the documents.

Q: Then you are the decider?

JW: No, I want your feedback and will consider if it's do-able.

KVC: The way I look at this is that the NPS is the experts.  The pubic employs them and Congress gives them power.  We need more give and take in a meeting so we feel there is value in our comments, that you don't already have your minds made up, you won't go ahead anyway, dam the torpedos, full speed ahead.  We need to get this interaction going with more give and take.  It's healthy and there will be a 1000% better result.

Applause.

JW:  "Please submit your comments.  I will analyze and summarize them and a decision will be made later.

Katharine Doris:  Isn't this a democracy?

JW: It is not a popularity vote.

KD: I know an old man whose son would drive him to see the rabbits and he is sad and crying.

JW: "We have not killed any rabbits…"

Q: "Where did they go?  How did they die?  I would really like to know."

JW:  The populations fluctuate…

Audience drowns him out

LD stood up again. Told about driving a tour bus and taking tourists to see the rabbits.

Chaos and loud talking as station flip charts are moved in front of the audience. 

LD: clap clap, GUYS!  Be quiet or they will end the meeting!

Francie Hansen appears in bunny costume, then leaves.  As she walks by the camera, soto voce (Tom Munsey?) "Don't worry, little rabbit.  We'll save you."

Thom Rome:  "I see five badges.  Let the five badges end their meeting and go away."

LD: Let's not get personal or emotional.  Let's take each point in a logical fashion.

Lots of comments at once: 

I'm for No Action. 

The rabbits are needed. 

When I go to South Beach now I just want to cry. 

The grasses can be protected.

Nature will figure it out.

JW: Please submit your comments in writing!

More comments:

There was such a sudden disappearance.

The foxes are thinner.

I would rather have mammals than grass.

We weren't here in the 1880s.

Who decides what's native?

Janet Thomas  said she noticed one day that the rabbits were gone.

She brought out the booklet Rabbits of San Juan Island, written and distributed by the park service, no longer in print.  "This booklet shows that the park once appreciated the rabbits.  It explains their natural cycles, that they don't expand their territory once established, that they feed the foxes and predator birds. The book addresses how the rabbits affect the environment and has a chapter called The Art of Rabbit Watching.  "Sitting quietly on the knoll…We are linked to one another."

JT: Are there only two alternatives?

JW:  You can add your own alternative.  The park itself has addressed a lot of these issues.

Ron Baisch: We need to see the big picture.  20 years ago we lost 90% of the rabbits.  How could they not be indigenous?  The island sustained thousands of rabbits.  It was balanced.  There is no new erosion.  Someone in the NPS recently, without a clear picture of the importance of the rabbits to the island, decided a prairie has to have grass.  We used to have every kind of hawk, ten times the bald eagles, owls…There were millions of rabbits then.  You couldn't drive a mile without seeing dead rabbits.  They would be gone by the morning, eaten by predator birds. 

"When there was no management, it worked just fine.  We had more wildlife.  It was an incredible world."

KD: You say you didn't bring the foxes.  But they do live there and they burrow too.  Are they next?  The land is okay.  Let them burrow.

Jackie Sherer:  I've lived here for 36 years.  The park spend money on a rabbit fence to nowhere.  Couldn't you build a fence to surround the redoubt?

Is there a chance that these rabbits have evolved into a separate species?

Sandy Ackerman:  hares and rabbits can't breed.

Sam Buck: I'm incredulous that there wasn't a planned rabbit kill.  You're telling me there was no planned rabbit kill, the park service didn't take any action or hire anyone to take any action to kill the rabbits?

JW: "We did not.  We did do limited control on individual rabbits that were digging into the redoubt.  Three individuals that were digging into an important cultural resource had to be removed.  That was this spring.

SB: One day the rabbits were just gone.  It just happened to coincide with when you asked for public feedback about getting rid of the rabbits. It seemed we gave you feedback, but you did what you wanted to do anyway.  I did hear later that there is a phenomenon where grasses respond to being nibbled too far down by releasing a kind of toxin.

Q: Are these all European rabbits?

JW: They are all European rabbits.

SB:  We need the wildlife out there.  They nibble down the evergreen trees.  Now the blackberries have been poisoned.  We have offered to help. 

JW:  "We'll take you up on it."

Tom Munsey:  Do the staff at the NPS office here agree with this course of action?  If anyone doesn't, please contact me.  "I will protect your identity.  You will remain anonymous.  Are there dissenters out there?"

Vicky Griebling: told about Rabbit and Groundhog Out, available at DeerOut.com. Phone

908 769 4242.  There are other ways to encourage Indian paintbrush:  bees.  I have a degree in wildlife biology.

Guard said there used to be so many rabbits.  Too many.  They need to be kept in check.

KD was scolded by PD

Q: "If you did not facilitate their extinction, do you know what killed them?"

PD: My guess is predation.  There are a lot more owls now: barn owls...

Q: Why not let ecology have its way.  Grass for a few years, rabbits for a few years.

PD: speechless

Roger Sandwith:  I have lived here all my life.  The National Parks bought this property with rabbits on it.  They are not brought in rabbits.  They are not imported rabbits.  They are San Juan Rabbits.  Take care of the rabbits and keep them alive for the little foxies and the eagles.

LD:  Spoke about tours.  People want to see the whales, the eagles and the bunnies.  Her son was sad about the rabbits being killed.  "The island children and tourism are affected...

The rabbits were first introduced in the mid 1800s.  When does a population become indigenous?  Isn't that population an ecological part of the area?  After 140 years, the rabbits are pretty much grandfathered in, I would imagine."  She said she had seen a fox with a rabbit in its mouth.

KD:  The stakes with ribbons aren't indigenous.

PD:  I have had a number of people tell me they were prepared for the original format of this forum.  They aren't comfortable with this.

Q:  Can you rethink the mission statement to include the foxes and rabbits and anything brought here by the soldiers and protect them as a cultural resource?

Bryn Barnard questioned the notion of freezing the park at a certain point in history.

PD:  I don't think that is accurate.

SB:  I've seen many perfunctory government meetings.  How much weight will our comments really have?

JW:  Peter makes recommendations to the regional director.

SB: What is our impact?

JW:  That depends on the types of comments.

PD:  We can't respond to each comment.  There are too many.  We group like comments together and respond to them as a group.  You can see how we did that in the back of the GMP.

Ron Baisch:  I just wanted to remind you that when there were so many rabbits, that was before the foxes.  I noticed the turkeys were gone, and called the fish and game warden.  They said someone had complained about too many turkeys, so they had brought in foxes.  The person who complained was Richard Willard, CEO of (a part of) Weyerhauser.

Foxes and cars are significant control factors now.

TR:  You said we should respond unemotionally.  I don't think there is anyone on this island  who isn't here emotionally.  I don't know how the NPS works, but I have some different experiences.  A friend worked for McDonalds, made a six-figure income.  He invented a new job description: inventing new names for hamburgers.  Maybe that's what the park rangers are doing…giving themselves something to do.

TM:  Will our comments here be considered?

JW:  You have to write them down.

TM: Would you like a DVD?

Q:  Will you pay attention to our petition?

PD:  You're welcome to do a petition.

JT:  Everyone here loves the park.  Is there any precedent for a liaison between the park and the community? A way to connect with the staff?

PD:  We have an active volunteer program….Mike Vouri…

KVC:   There needs to be a new paradigm that recognizes an evolving ecosystem, that gets along with a living, changing ecosystem.  I would be willing to help you move forward with this.

Applause.

Woman appeared in doorway.  "Has anyone been out to South Beach?  The foxes are starving and begging!  You people are idiots!" 

VG:  Was there a grant for the restoration project?

JW: No.  It was an NPS project.

Andrew Seltzer:  How will the genocide occur?  Roundup?

JW:  Potentially, we will hire a conservation crew to shoot the rabbits.

SA:  gave pitch for Trap Neuter Release or Trap Neuter Relocate.  Rabbit Meadows Sanctuary in Redmond.

BB:  Why didn't you consider TNR?  It's too expensive?  Cheaper to shoot them?

T.M:  You know the rabbits will come back.  This will have to be continuous.

JW:  We will have to have a longterm strategy to prevent recolonization.

KD:  The foxes are begging.  Will you get rid of the foxes too?

JW:  It is not being proposed.  They aren't begging so much now.  That was during Memorial Day and 4th of July weekends. 

Rebecca Parks Barnard:  It is understandable that there is a lot of ego involved here.  The Park Service has put a lot of hard work into Alternative B.  If there was any way you could put this to a vote among islanders, you know darn well we would vote for Alternative A.

Someone said PD was smirking.  He said, I'm not smirking, I'm smiling.

RPB:  That's okay, I love smiling.  So we have to believe you didn't gas the rabbits.  We've been under this assumption for a long time.  It looks suspicious.  But I want to go on record as saying that I believe you.  I believe our government [sarcasm evident.]  I have no reason to think you are lying.  It's going so well! 

Q: Why are there grasses now?  Are you working on the grasses?  I've heard there are thousands of plugs.

PD:  I'm not saying we haven't planted any grasses.

Okay, we're starting to go over the same territory.

Q:  Say you get 4,000 petition signatures.  Is it going to make a difference?

PD:  indicated again that a on a petition doesn't count "without a comment."

RB: A signature on a petition is there to endorse the comment written above it.

PD:  "This is kind of like, 'When did you stop gassing the rabbits?'…I can't guarantee the outcome will be what you want.  Some are uncomfortable with this format.  There's a tendency to shoot people down.  It's not fair.  You get to accuse us of things, but you don't take the civic responsibility to let us speak as well.  I'm a little concerned about that.  Even though we're standing here allowing people to comment, we're being accused of not letting the people comment."

LD:  I appreciate your letting me be the go-between.  They did not have to do that.  You're in a difficult position.

Applause.

LD:  The petition needs to have comments to be valid.  I am involved in many animal rights causes and there is a place for a comment on a petition.

KVC:  About the foxes:  they are naturally thin this time of year.

Richard Walker: speaking as a citizen, not an editor:  the foxes are begging because the people are offering them food to lure them out of their dens to take pictures.  A fed animal is a dead animal.  I have no opinion about Alternative A or B.

Q:  Can we contact the regional director ourselves?

JW:  They'll just send your comments back to us.

KD:  I think we were pretty good 90 percent of the time today.  And five percent of that was me.  I'm sorry I said you smirked when you smiled.

Notes by Rebecca Parks Barnard

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